Not Just for Engineers: Broadening the Space Pipeline

Time Markers

00:00 – Introduction
00:20 – Guest introduction
01:22 – How SEDS engages students
03:32 – Sara’s journey
05:44 – Space isn’t just for engineers
07:36 – The gender gap
11:19 – The education pipeline
13:06 – The challenges in STEM education
15:28 – On mentorship
18:14 – Space Takes: Jared Isaacman
23:02- Space Takes: A European shift
28:26 – Space Takes: Oxygen in another galaxy
31:07 – Space Takes: ISS Quantum experiment

Transcript – Sara Alvarado Conversation

David Ariosto – Sara, it is a pleasure to see you again.

Sara Alvarado – Thank you. Likewise.

David Ariosto – Yeah, I was so excited about this conversation because I find what you do so so very important in terms of sort of long term structure of both the space industry and this country and sort of where we’re all headed. But if you allow me, just like for the audience, maybe just give a little bit of a background, you’re the executive director of SEDS, which I if I can explain that. It’s basically a non profit called the students for the exploration and development of space, and it’s the world’s largest student run space organization. It’s been around since, like, the 1980s and the idea, I mean, you can correct me if I’m wrong here, is to sort of fuel the space economy or space agencies or research centers with new talent and sort of this, this pipeline kind of approach is I, am I close?

Sara Alvarado – No, yeah, you got it right. And I’ll add in that we are student led and student run so outside of myself and our webmaster, even our board of directors and our volunteer staff at the national level are all students.

David Ariosto – Yeah, talk to me a little bit about what you actually do there, in terms of the competitions, in terms of the grants, but especially in terms of, like, the nature of the technology that some of these students are engaged in. I think the last time we spoke, we were talking about reusable rocketry and self landing rockets and sort of like advanced concepts that you might not immediately think of at the collegiate level.

Sara Alvarado – Yeah, absolutely. So Space Science at the University level has advanced so much over the years, and we’re seeing a really big boom in interest in different universities, even in universities that no longer had or that never had an engineering program. Yeah. So what we do at SEDS is through through different opportunities, we help make those projects happen. Some key projects that I’m so excited about you mentioned the reusability one that’s from UCSD. We have the our Portland State chapter who build Portland’s first CubeSat. They are they’ve built this kit that can be built by middle school and high school students. It’s a portable ground station, and they connect so the the high school will talk to the University chapter that let them know where they’ll be and at what time, the University chapter will then send them this kit. They’ll build it themselves, and then they face it up towards the sky, and are able to get a 10 minute direct link to the. Cell phone of what that satellite is seeing. So it’s, it’s a giant selfie from space, and it’s, it’s helping the community embrace space science. So a lot of the work that we do is at that cutting edge of collegiate science, but it involves a lot of the community, because what we know is that reaching back and helping the next generations helps in terms of increasing awareness of opportunities in space, not just, you know, not just aerospace engineers or what needed. So Ed says, we take a lot of pride in being able to help those sort of organizations and situations.

David Ariosto – And you know what I found, what’s interesting about this too, is in terms of how this sort of fits in with your own personal story. And I wonder if you can kind of just, you know, maybe walk us through this a little bit, because, you know, you you describe, you describe an interest in space at an early age, and yet also this almost roadblock, or this hurdle that you weren’t quite sure that you’d be able to clear by, by virtue of, maybe there’s a sort of the lack of a of a program, or the sort of the nature or the maybe the the lack of the infrastructural, sort of situational foundation that that would maybe traditionally propel people into careers in space. So walk me through that a little bit.

Sara Alvarado – Yeah, well, I’m originally from Bogota, Colombia, and at that time, we didn’t have any sort of space footprint.

David Ariosto – It’s changing now, right? Some of these, like nanosatellites and Earth observation components, but, but certainly back then, not.

Sara Alvarado – Yes. Now there are universities building CubeSats in Columbia, which is amazing, but when I went to college, I also didn’t think by then that dream of becoming an astronaut for me, which I know many children share for me, was just not a something that I thought was attainable. So I studied economics and industrial engineering, and I would attend my sets chapter meetings for the free pizza and to talk about space history. But it wasn’t until the opportunity came up to become the national treasure for SEDS, and I thought, well, I have this economics background, and I’ve been meaning to truly give back to this organization that has helped me feel like I can still share my passion for space in some way. And I applied, and I got it, and I I did so much impactful work that really created ripple effects for what we could do in the future, for helping students and their projects. So then I applied for the chair, and I got that, and then somehow, along the way, I became the Executive Director, and that’s what I do now. And my …

David Ariosto – Your own background, though, I’m sorry to interrupt, I’m just going to say your own background in economics. I mean, yes, you have the industrial engineering background, but I think that that’s a really kind of interesting wrinkle in all this, because I think a lot of people think of the space industry. They think of astronauts, or they think of aerospace engineers, and the nature of people with backgrounds in economics or finance or digital marketing or healthcare or nursing, or, you know, just like it almost strikes me, is that, you know, not only is the space so widened, so So exponentially in recent years, but the pipeline is now starting to marry to that, or at least it should be. And you, your role seems to be very much at the vanguard of that.

Sara Alvarado – Yes, yeah, and, and I think also to add to that is the idea that now are the technologies that were developed for space are impacting so many other industries and markets that people that decided, you know, I’m going to study finance for extra wise or see reasons are being pulled into space or vice versa. So it’s definitely not so much the same story. Now of you have to be an aerospace engineer and and I think the younger generations are starting to realize that, and that goes along with not just what we’re seeing at the university level, but being a nonprofit, we’ve been able to partner with some great other nonprofit organizations. One that I will call out is last year, we worked with the Colorado Council of black nurses who happen to have an aerospace branch. They work with universities and colleges in the area to teach space medicine to nurses. So thinking about how these little pockets are springing in different space hubs and how that’s going to impact the generations after. Is this something that I’m really excited about?

David Ariosto – You know, I’m glad you mentioned that, because that was, that was another point that, you know, I have talked you and I have talked about in the past, in a sense, is there sort of that, despite all the progress, despite the widening of the industry, and the fact that you have companies now like Toyota, who are exploring, sort of. The satellite wherewithal, or companies like Wal Mart or target that are sort of like monitoring the parking lots during holiday traffic season by via satellites to kind of get a sense of their of their customer base and their rivals. And so like this idea that this space industry is widening beyond the Boeings and the SpaceX is all exciting. But I remember looking at this UN study just it was just a couple years ago, and it was pointing to the numbers of women in the space sector, and it was about one in five. And that was interesting in the context also of the fact that that numbers was pretty much the same as it was about 30 years ago. So despite some of this progress, there seems to be this gap that that just is persistent. And I wonder if you could address that, and sort of what you’ve what you’ve seen.

Sara Alvarado – Absolutely and you know, in a lot of our leadership, in in sets, we see some of that, most leaders are still the men, but I would counter that in the chapters where we have female leaders, whether it’s presidents, directors of projects, what we see is a greater sense of community, and We see a continuation of promoting more female leadership. So I’ll call out UCSD. Not only are they doing amazing things with rockets, but they also created sets her, which is a purely mentorship program for women in sets, but also for women in a double A that university and a few other STEM organizations there, so that was developed by their president, who happens to be a woman, and those are that’s one example. We also have Texas A and M who partner a lot with the Nesby chapter, because that started through Callie win, a president who is now doing Kinesiology. So even if we’re seeing still similar numbers in terms of representation, I think women are still are being able to cultivate this community and therefore increasing this awareness that potentially might not have been done, you know, otherwise, and I will say for my own journey, you know, being a woman and being a minority, there’s this sense of of self selection, of thinking, you know, I I’m not going to meet those standards. Or why would I even try? I’m not going to get it. And I myself, had to go through that when I decided to run for treasure. But it really came back to discussing with my male counterparts that I had this idea, and they were my allies, very supportive, and I think that that’s what the men can do in these sort of situations. It’s help uplift those voices so that we can create a greater sense of diversity and then be much more strategic about how we approach different problems from different angles. So I will finish off with saying that as a taking a wider approach and thinking about our civilization, if we can fully share that sense of not feeling like we’re the adequate person for the job, if we’re all sharing that, then maybe we can all bond on that and help uplift each other.

David Ariosto – You know, you make a great point. And I also sort of would reiterate that space seems different in terms of the community aspect, and just my own experience, there are certain professions out there that are singular and focus, or individualistic and focus, and you’re sort of working towards a goal that might benefit yourself or your family, or sort of the broader, broader nature of your industry in the abstract. But so many of these factories, space factories that I’ve been to, or research labs, have this sense of a community and this team working together in in this broader goal. And there’s, you know, there’s not a lot of interpretation whether or not a rocket takes off or not, or whether it lands on the moon or not, you know, it’s, it’s less subjective, I guess, in that sense. And so this like collective sense that you see in rocket factories that also maybe translates directly into terms of the educational pipeline that you’re fostering. It just strikes me that connection is somewhat unique in this emerging industry.

Sara Alvarado – Yes, I agree. And what’s amazing about what we’re able to do with sets is students will be studying orbital dynamics or fluids in the day, and then in the evening, they’ll be putting together proposals for projects, planning out projects, developing that teamwork and those leadership skills. So it’s really creating a whole, a well rounded individual that knows how to work as a team and truly in. Space. No one person can do it all. Yeah, what we’ve been able to achieve here in the US and really as as a civilization, is amazing, but it definitely takes a village.

David Ariosto – So now I now, I want to push back a little bit on sort of a question for you, when we look at the broader competitive landscape. You think about, particularly in this country, America, sort of long term competitiveness in space, and I’m talking about principally STEM education. There’s not really a comprehensive National Science and Technology Strategy. And if you look at the numbers across other industrialized nations, American students often perform worse than their peers in comparison, especially with dealing with critical math and hard science knowledge, I get the sense that as diversified as the approach is in terms of the content creators and the financial aspects, there’s also sort of a core, fundamental aspect of STEM as it relates to space. And if you look at sort of the long term trends and real questions about competitiveness, long term, how do we address this, like, how do we how do we start to kind of right the ship? A little bit.

Sara Alvarado – An excellent question, I think that there’s no one answer. Just like anything, it’s a it’s a systematic approach. What we’re able to do at sets is provide that hands on experience. You know, many people say what you study kind of goes out the window until you get two years of real world experience. So we’re able to provide that real world experience of being able to apply the equations that you’re studying, the theory that you’re learning, and to seeing how it actually works. So what we’re when we develop that pipeline, we are focusing on being able to attract a variety of majors so that we can stay competitive, and I think that the projects that we support at the national level stay to maintain that competitive competitiveness, we focus on a wide variety. So not only are we supporting rockets, we’re also supporting policy projects. We’re supporting CubeSats so that we’re able to interact with the space sector and fuel the space sector through that pipeline in all the different elements that compromise the space industry.

David Ariosto – You know, I’m out here in Arizona, and Arizona State University has a pretty, pretty robust science and space exploration program. And I remember going and visiting and seeing some of these students who are just like 18 years old, who are working on cube sats and and, you know, partnerships with NASA on some of these broader missions. And it makes me think I kind of slacked off in college by comparison, because it just, it’s just extraordinary. It’s extraordinary, like the extent of which the knowledge base is sort of trickling down to even that collegiate and even high school levels. I mean, is that kind of where it starts? You sort of have to germinate those seeds early. And also, I wonder if you can kind of speak to the importance of mentorship in this and sort of like seeing seeing people who you want to be like, and then sort of manifesting through that.

Sara Alvarado – Yes, well, many of our chapters work with the high schools in their area because they themselves were interested in space when they were high schoolers. And I have many high school students reach out to me and either form chapters at the high school level, which we have a few, or ask me, Hey, I’m a graduate. I’m graduating this year. Where can I go? How do I get in contact with a sets chapter? So the interest is definitely there, and now, as as the technology advances, there’s more opportunity for high schoolers to take on projects and not feel like, like you mentioned, like they’re slacking off when they get to college. So whether it’s programming or hackathons, there’s definitely a lot of opportunities. Something that is very important to us when we promote the projects and when we support projects that our chapters are doing, is that they continue that community component, whether it’s through mentorship, like you said, by bringing projects to the high schools and showing them how things work, or including some of those students, K through 12, it doesn’t just have to be high schools, but including the younger generations in the in the engine testing and the in the different testings of different milestones. And what we see is this pipeline grows even further to not just be, you know, once they enter the university, but much earlier. There’s a lot of of different projects out there for for high school students. And I will add here that if you’re still in Arizona next year, that’s where we’ll be hosting our conference. Space Station, and we would love to have you.

David Ariosto – Excellent. Well, it’s been a pleasure. It’s such such such important work you do. Sara Alvarado, Executive Director of SEDS, thank you so much for joining us here on Space Minds.

Sara Alvarado – Thank you. It’s been a pleasure.