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Kirsten Dunst shares stories about growing up in Hollywood, why she decided to publicly address her mental health break, and the joyful — though sometimes awkward — moments of acting opposite her real-life partner, Jesse Plemons, in “The Power of the Dog.” Listen and read the transcript below:
MARK OLSEN: Hello! I’m Mark Olsen.
YVONNE VILLARREAL: And I’m Yvonne Villarreal. Welcome back to a brand new season of “The Envelope,” the show where we dive in deep with your favorite stars. We’ve got some exciting and intimate conversations lined up for you this season, featuring top talent in TV and film. But before we get into our first interview… Mark, my friend, I’ve missed you. What have you been up to since last season?
MARK OLSEN: Well, first of all, it’s great to see you too. I really have missed our Zoom conversations. And I mean, I wish I had something new to report, but I really have just been watching a lot of movies like usual. What about you?
YVONNE VILLARREAL: I’ve been living my best Sad Girl Autumn. Adele is still on repeat over here. So it’s been good. Lots of candles, moody lighting. It’s too much. But we’re back in the saddle here. I’m very excited for this.
MARK OLSEN: Yeah, and I can’t think of a better way to kick things off than with today’s guest, Kirsten Dunst. She’s truly a veteran of Hollywood, having started her career when she was very young. And then she, of course, first gained wider recognition at only age 10 for her role alongside Brad Pitt and Tom Cruise in “Interview With the Vampire.”
[Archival Clip from “Interview with the Vampire”: Claudia: Which one of you did it? Which one of you did it? Which one of you made me the way I am? Lestat: What you are? A vampire gone insane that pollutes its own bed? Claudia: And if I cut my hair again? Lestat: It will grow back again.]
YVONNE VILLARREAL: You know, I never saw “Interview With the Vampire.” My mom thought I was too young for that, even though Kirsten was probably my age as she starred in it. But you know, my first introduction to Kirsten was “Little Women.” My mom had gifted me that book when I was a kid, and then she took me to see it. And, oh my God, it was like my imagination exploded. But I would go on to follow her career. Obviously, there’s “Bring It On,” there’s “Virgin Suicides,” but one of my favorites was “Crazy/Beautiful.”
MARK OLSEN: Well, that’s one thing that’s so remarkable about her career is that all through these different ages and phases of her life, she’s had just terrific performances all along the way. I love her so much in the Watergate satire “Dick” with Michelle Williams, and you know, it was exciting to talk to her about her collaborations with Sofia Coppola on the “Virgin Suicides,” “Marie Antoinette” and “The Beguiled.” And then on forward to even why after the big success that she had with “Spider-Man,” she kind of stepped back from acting for a couple of years as a mental health break.
YVONNE VILLARREAL: Yeah, I’m very excited to see her in “The Power of the Dog.”
MARK OLSEN: Yeah, she’s really been getting a lot of acclaim for her performance in “The Power of the Dog,” which when this episode is coming out is going to begin streaming on Netflix tomorrow. In the movie, she plays Rose Gordon, a widow in 1920s Montana who runs a small inn, and she is kind of whisked away on this fairy tale romance by a wealthy rancher named George, and she thinks she’s going to be stepping into one kind of a life. But it turns out that she’s sort of forced to also live alongside George‘s very cruel brother, Phil, who really preys on her insecurities.
[Archival clip from “The Power of the Dog”: (whistling) Phil: Open up the gate. Let him out. Rancher: Are you sure? He’s not ready. Phil: Go on. Let him out. (whistling and laughter) Rose: He’s just a man. Only another man.]
MARK OLSEN: Phil is played by Benedict Cumberbatch, who also has been getting a lot of acclaim for his performance, and in fact, the role of George is actually played by Kirsten’s real-life partner, Jesse Plemons, who I believe she also met while shooting “Fargo.” And that’s not her only fated connection to the film. It actually turns out that her collaboration with the director, the legendary Jane Campion, had been many years in the making, and it all started with a handwritten letter.
KIRSTEN DUNST: Yes, I have it on my phone. I keep it saved to my email. And yeah, she wrote it, someone took a picture of it and emailed it to me. So I never got the original copy.
MARK OLSEN: Do you mind reading it? Can you?
KIRSTEN DUNST: Oh yeah. I don’t mind. Hold on. Let me just look it up. OK. Letter from Jane Campion. “Dearest Kirsten Dunst. I will be in L.A. in the second half of September. And if you have any liking for Alice Munro’s story, ‘Runaway,’ I would love to meet. I have loved your work since I first saw you in — guess what? — ‘Little Women,’”
[Archival clip from “Little Women”: Amy: Mr. Davis said it was as useful to educate a woman as it is to educate a female cat.]
KIRSTEN DUNST: “then ‘Virgin Suicides’”
[Archival clip from “Virgin Suicides”: Lux: We have five minutes. We had to wait until my parents were asleep.]
KIRSTEN DUNST: “and and and dot dot dot ‘Marie Antoinette.’”
[Archival Clip from “Marie Antoinette”: Marie: Let them eat cake.]
KIRSTEN DUNST: “There won’t be a forward script, but a shooting document will be generated by myself and Laura Jones. And part of the process will include a workshop with the actors during which we will explore and … expand the material, explore and expand the material. I hope this shadow swan card finds you good plus happy, and look forward to meeting if this project interests you. Then know for your work you’re a queen. Love, Jane Campion.”
Oh no. “Thank you for your work. You’re a queen. Jane Campion.” But you see how it’s written. It’s written really like scroll. It’s written in the shape of a swan.
MARK OLSEN: That’s how I want to do all my correspondence now. I really like that. And so after all that time — and I don’t know if you and her sort of stayed in touch — what was it like for you to finally work with her? Did it meet your expectations?
KIRSTEN DUNST: Very much so and then some. And I still kind of fan out when I’m hanging out with her sometimes to myself. Like, I mean, there are things embedded in my brain from “The Piano” that will live with me for the rest of my life that are just like so — that immediately flood me with emotion when I think of them.
MARK OLSEN: And what was it about her earlier films that spoke to you? Like, what is it about say “The Piano” that really means something to you? What do you take from that?
KIRSTEN DUNST: The female performances in her films have been such an inspiration for me as an actress. I think, you know, Kate Winslet in “Holy Smoke”…
[Archival clip from “Holy Smoke”: Ruth: What, do you think I’m gonna break? Like all those other little chicken wing girlies you snap apart?]
KIRSTEN DUNST: I mean, the woman was like peeing in a field on camera. You know what I mean? It’s just like, I love female performances that are just let it all hang out. I mean, that’s the kind of acting and that’s the kind of — those are the kinds of performances that inspire me. So working with her, I knew that we’d get down to some real things. So to be part of, one of her films was just life altering. And now I have her as a mentor.
MARK OLSEN: And you also have this long-running collaboration with Sofia Coppola.
KIRSTEN DUNST: Yes.
MARK OLSEN: And I don’t know if you saw that recently Sofia and Jane did a conversation together at the New York Film Festival, and Sophia referred to Jane as like her sort of big sister filmmaker. I didn’t know that they had a relationship. How did the two of them compare?
KIRSTEN DUNST: I think Sofia’s more reserved in the way that, maybe my acting has been in her films and Jane is … hmm … I’m trying to find the right words. I’m sleep training a 7-month-old baby right now too. So I feel like just half my brain is just gone because of lack of sleep.
MARK OLSEN: I understand.
KIRSTEN DUNST: So… But yeah, Jane likes to get down and dirty. You know? I think she wants to see the ugliest parts of people.
MARK OLSEN: I’ll be honest, I don’t really understand acting at all, but I know for myself, I would be protective and defensive, and it would be hard for me to reveal the parts that you’re always hiding. Is it difficult for you to show those parts of yourself, like in a performance?
KIRSTEN DUNST: I like it. It’s cathartic for me. I feel like I get to shed past things in my life and kind of exorcise them out of myself and I think it just helps me in my life at the end of the day. Or that’s the goal too, that a role could be actually cathartic for you.
MARK OLSEN: And you have some sense of what the character and the performance of Rose has done for you? Like what do you feel you’ve gotten from this?
KIRSTEN DUNST: I think Rose is a very old part of myself that I had to rehash of just feeling really bad about myself, or allowing myself to feel bad about myself, because of other people’s comments or control, or … you know, I think that in your early 20s, it’s very easy to get swayed into different things or thinking about yourself in a certain way, especially when you’re putting yourself out there as an actress, and you’re in a public light. So, there are definitely things I can relate to in terms of feeling really badly about yourself.
MARK OLSEN: Hollywood, it can be so difficult as far as, I guess, appearances and the way that things are projected onto you. I had seen you say how a producer, I think it was on “Spider-Man,” wanted you to fix your teeth, and I’m wondering, how did you deal with something like that?
KIRSTEN DUNST: I mean, I just thought that’s never going to happen, girl. You know what I mean? Cause I just — I think having Sofia Coppola as someone to look up to at 16, and having that be an age where you really just feel, you don’t — I never felt like cool or pretty, or — I definitely didn’t feel cool. And Sofia kind of gave me confidence because she thought I was pretty, and she loved my teeth and she… She gave me confidence that at the time I didn’t realize that made me feel good about myself for entering this like more male gaze in Hollywood. So I always felt like I could dress the way I wanted to, and I didn’t have to do anything to try and be like a Hollywood blonde, like fix my teeth perfectly or anything like that. I didn’t feel that pressure because Sofia thought I was beautiful, and I thought she was the coolest. You know?
MARK OLSEN: In “The Power of the Dog,” I mean, Rose definitely lacks confidence. And are you sort of like drawing back on some of those real-life experiences? It’s funny, I heard Jane say that she felt that Rose is everything you struggled against, this kind of pressure to be just like a pretty pleasant person.
KIRSTEN DUNST: Yeah, it’s very much not my personality. So it was a very old part of … there were definitely some things that I had to re-bring up of just feeling insecure or not feeling good about myself. So there’s that part, but then there’s other parts. That’s just a very small part because Benedict and I don’t actually have many scenes together. So I kind of had to create my own monster within myself. Because listen, some whistling is not going to make my hair stand on end. You know what I mean? That’s not really going to do it for me. Like some boots through a hallway isn’t going to make me lose my mind, you know? I had to really create my own version of that, my own house of horrors.
[Archival clip from “The Power of the Dog”: (whistling and boots stomping) Rose: Peter! (whistling continues)]
MARK OLSEN: You mentioned earlier that roles can often be cathartic for you. Was there something cathartic for you in Rose?
KIRSTEN DUNST: I don’t know. Rose wasn’t really joyful to play. And then when I’d come home, I just would think about my work that day, and, I don’t know, I wasn’t as confident. And I’m happy that Jesse was there with me because I [want] someone to like give me a hug or have lunch with. And I remember this one scene I did, and Noriko [Watanabe] — who did my makeup and my wig in the movie, I’ve worked with on a couple films — and I just remember like crying in her arms one day, just after some takes. Because it doesn’t stop just because someone yells “cut.” You know what I mean? It’s not like, “Oh, my tears just dry right up” and “OK, out to lunch!” Like, I just felt with Rose it was a very painful experience to play her. Not a role I’d migrate to if it wasn’t in the hands of Jane Campion.
MARK OLSEN: And why were you crying that day? Do you remember what the scene was?
KIRSTEN DUNST: What was the scene? Hmm. I felt like a scene in the bedroom, but then I can’t remember what scene was in the bedroom where I was like crying. I’ve seen the movie twice, but I kind of block out my — when I watch the movie, I kind of zone out on myself I think.
MARK OLSEN: It must be hard for you to — especially I think with Jesse being in this movie, I’m going to imagine you enjoy watching him in movies — it must be difficult to have like parts of it you don’t want to watch and parts of it you do want to watch.
KIRSTEN DUNST: Yeah, I wish I could watch this as just like a Jane Campion fan, because I’m sad I don’t get that experience. I mean, when I watch Jesse and I on the mountaintop, I’m like, “Oh my God, we’re so dorky,” because we have to act so reserved with each other, and we have a child together. It’s just funny to pretend there’s no history with someone you have a tremendous amount of history with. It’s just weird.
MARK OLSEN: Well, tell me more about that scene that you mentioned that is kind of like the romantic high point of the film. The two of you, you’re going for the first time to his family’s ranch, you pull the car over…
[Archival clip from “The Power of the Dog”: Rose: What is it, George? George: I wanted to say how nice it is not to be alone.]
MARK OLSEN: And you stop. The camera swirls around you. It’s a beautiful moment. What is that like to be doing that with your actual partner? Like, I don’t know if it feels more romantic, if it feels silly somehow. What was doing that scene like?
KIRSTEN DUNST: It’s not romantic when there’s a bunch of crew around. You know what I mean? Maybe if we were alone on the mountaintop and like having, like, I don’t know, a nice cocktail, it’d be great. But it was just like, he’s in his little outfit and I’m teaching him how to waltz, and it’s all really old-timey and cute. But also his line when he‘s like, “It’s just so nice to not be alone” is, I think, one of the best lines of the film. When he did that, I cried off camera. I was just — I was so moved by his performance that day. And also I feel I wasn’t that good of a dance teacher. That waltz. I mean, I got it together. I did it. I figured out how to teach him.
[Archival clip from “The Power of the Dog”: Rose: One. Two. Three. To the side. One. Two. Three. And back. One. Two. Three. Told you I’d teach you.]
MARK OLSEN: Do the two of you have a similar process? Like, can you sort of rehearse together, practice together? What was that experience like, especially here with going down to New Zealand and making the film together with the two of you?
KIRSTEN DUNST: Yeah, I mean, we fell in love creatively first. He was like a creative soulmate to me in the way we both work. And on “Fargo,” I knew after two weeks. I didn’t remember saying this, but one of my best friends told me that I said to her that “I will know this man for the rest of my life. I just know it.” Just because I felt such an immediate connection. We love working together. So, it’s really, really easy to work with each other. We’re very honest. We’re very down to try anything. No one judges anybody. There’s no ego. It’s just how do we make this the most alive together and the most real? And then, I’ve been working with my dreams for quite some time now. And I introduced the method to Jesse, and then Jane and Benedict did it for the first time with someone else on this film.
MARK OLSEN: Can you explain that to me a little bit? Like, I don’t totally understand what that process is.
KIRSTEN DUNST: Yes. It’s just checking in with what your unconscious mind thinks about what you’re doing or how to approach something. So I’ll give you an example. Talking to my inner self: “If it is in your will, please reveal to me in a dream mannerisms,” you know, like whatever I want to figure out. Like, what she looks like, anything my inner self will give me. And then if I go to bed, I write down the dream, and then I analyze it with Greta, who I work with. Her name is Greta Seacat. And we figure out, we basically decode it, both her and myself. And so like, something that I got in a dream for “Fargo” was that there was a “Scooby-Doo” tape in my dream.
[ Archival clip from “Scooby-Doo”: Shaggy: Scooby-Doo, where are you?]
KIRSTEN DUNST: And we were talking about “Scooby-Doo,” me and Greta, and she was like, “Well, what do you think about it?” I was like, “Well, they all run in this little funny way.” You know, they, like, run off together. They scamper together in this way all together.
[Archival clip from “Scooby-Doo”: (footsteps running)]
KIRSTEN DUNST: And she’s like, “Well, there you go. There’s Peggy’s walk.” That’s a really fun clue because it’s a really in-your-face one, which I love when you get those. So yeah, it’s just things like that that ground you so much in who you’re playing that you don’t need to look anywhere out for answers for your character. You know everything. So by the time you get to set you’re so confident in the work that you’ve done, it gives you so much freedom.
MARK OLSEN: And when did you start working with Greta? Like when did you sort of start working on this process?
KIRSTEN DUNST: I started working with her on a film called “All Good Things,” which was a movie Andrew Jarecki did about Robert Durst. I took that script to some of the top acting teachers around, and she was just the person that was the most for me in her approach.
MARK OLSEN: I want to back up just a little bit in that before you had done that movie, you’d kind of taken a break from acting for a couple of years. I want to know a little bit about that time, what it was like for you and what sort of brought you back to acting.
KIRSTEN DUNST: You know, when you do it for so long — I started doing this as a little girl. I mean, people know me from “Interview” but I started before that, and things have to change. Like, I learned about movies while I was making movies. I didn’t know about my taste in film. I was learning it as I was growing in this industry, and I think the older you get… You know what? When something means so much to you too, you can work yourself up. And that’s really when — when I did have to audition when I was older for certain things, I think it was just because it meant so much to me. And I wanted the parts so badly that it was worth auditioning, but it also came with a lot of stress. So, in doing that, I think more and more I realized, oh, the way that I’m approaching this isn’t giving me anything back. Like, it felt like more outputting for other people or like performing for the director or something like that. It just was meaningless for me.
MARK OLSEN: And you’ve been pretty open talking about that during that time you were treated for depression. Back at that time — I mean 2008 to 2011 — people were definitely not talking about mental health issues as much as they are now. Was it a challenge for you to decide to talk about that publicly and to be open about it?
KIRSTEN DUNST: I kind of felt like, wow, it’s so personal. It’s such a personal thing. But yeah, I do feel like it’s so mishandled. I personally was so terrified of taking an antidepressant at that time. Like, terrified. And it really just helped me clear something so I could start to see things again. So I’m willing to talk at length with anyone who’s struggling.
MARK OLSEN: And was there a moment where you sort of recognized that you were having a problem and that you needed help?
KIRSTEN DUNST: It wasn’t really a quote unquote problem. I wasn’t like using drugs or anything. It was just literally my brain got depressed. You know what I mean? It was just like, the old way of being and working within the world didn’t work anymore. I just never really got angry. I was just like never really angry about things. So that is the definition of depression pretty much. Anger turned inwards.
MARK OLSEN: Is that still something that you draw from when you’re playing a character like Rose? Or also, I think so much of your part in “Melancholia.” That character seemed like it really was drawn from your experiences. Like, is it that much of a one-to-one connection to some of the things you’ve been through?
KIRSTEN DUNST: I think that being given the gift of “Melancholia” and being asked to play that — and Lars has been through a lot of depression in his life — and because we both know it so well in our own ways, it was such a freeing experience. I had the best time making “Melancholia” if that makes any sense. In order to play depressed it’s like, you can’t be depressed. You know? You have to be in such a good place and so open in order to access these things. And so, I have to say doing that was probably the most cathartic for me at the end of the day.
[Archival clip from “Melancholia”: Claire: You need to wash, right? Justine: I’m so tired. Claire: Come on. Try. Justine: I can’t. Claire: Justine, you’ll like it. (Justine groans)]
MARK OLSEN: And when you came back to acting, did you feel recharged? Whether it was working with Greta or it was, you know, when you worked on “Melancholia,” did you feel something new happening for you coming out of that period?
KIRSTEN DUNST: I think I felt pretty fragile at first, and so I had to rethink and restart studying acting in a different way than I had learned it before. I had worked with coaches before and worked on it, and I had my certain ways of doing things. But those ways didn’t work anymore, and so I had to find a new way in, or would probably not be doing it if I hadn’t. I felt so … like such a revitalization of why I do what I do and loving what I do again, and it became something that now is for myself rather than for anyone else.
MARK OLSEN: You also have talked a few times about the fact that you feel like you haven’t totally been recognized by your peers. I mean, in some ways the fact that you have not won any kind of major awards except for when you won best actress at Cannes for “Melancholia.” And again, it’s something that not a lot of people talk about. Like, it’s so interesting to hear you be so open to talk about that.
KIRSTEN DUNST: Well, I think it would be such a big deal. I was talking to a guy who was so sweet. He was such a fan. I was like, well, maybe they just think of me as the “Bring It On” girl. You know, it was such a flippant comment. I didn’t mean it like, “nobody likes me.” You know what I mean? But, I don’t know. All this stuff is so weird. It’s like — I think that at the end of the day, it’s just like a magical little thing of being in the right movie at the right time and everyone liking it. You know, it’s like a lot of little things for people to get behind a film. And I’m just lucky I got to be in a Jane Campion movie.
MARK OLSEN: I guess one way to put it as a question is like, do you have a role that you think is like your best work and that means a lot to you? Like, I think always of “Marie Antoinette,” and the way that that movie got kind of a bad rap when it first came out, but now there’s been a couple of anniversary pieces recently. It’s really much beloved.
KIRSTEN DUNST: Yeah, I guess, listen, it’s nice to be ahead of your time. And Sofia made movies when it wasn’t cool for female directors. And then, oh, other directors or other art comes out now, and “Marie Antoinette” kind of gave permission for those kinds of things to be made, I think, and not like a really self-serious period film. And she kind of gave up their people permission to have fun with the genre. I mean, other films have before previously, but hers was the next generation of that. Listen, the fact that it’s appreciated now and it’s lived on is so … it’s wonderful that people have found it and love it. And at the time yeah, it was a bummer, because of the movie I saw, when I watched it, I loved it. I was like, this is so cool. This is one of the most freeing, interesting takes on history I’d ever seen. So I just felt like, am I wrong? Am I crazy? Do I have bad taste? Am I nuts? You know? But, it turns out people like it.
MARK OLSEN: Because it does seem like with “The Power of the Dog” that, just like you were saying, that the timing of this, it seems like things are really aligning for the movie, which must be exciting.
KIRSTEN DUNST: You know what? I don’t really think about it too much because it’s just not — I just — Yeah, I just can’t. So, it feels like I get nominated or something like that, incredible. But if not, I got to work with Jane Campion. You know what I mean? That trumps any other thing to me.
MARK OLSEN: What does success mean to you now? Like, do you find that over the last few years — I mean, especially if you started a family — that those ideas of what success is have changed?
KIRSTEN DUNST: Of course, yeah. The priorities and also just — I definitely have films that I’m very proud of. And I think if you have some of those that you can say that you’re proud of, that’s successful. But yes, your priorities change because like right now I’m not sleeping through the night and I have sweatpants on during our Zoom and like, I was holding my baby, feeding him before I came to talk about myself. I watch bad cartoons all day. You know what I mean? So it’s not like I’m nourishing my artistry right now or anything like that. I go back to work in February, but I haven’t worked since “The Power of the Dog.” I got pregnant and just, you know, hung with my children.
MARK OLSEN: Are you looking forward to going back to work?
KIRSTEN DUNST: Very much so. Yes. Yeah. The hardest job in the world is to be at home with children. It really is. Any mom knows exactly how I feel. It’s very hard.
MARK OLSEN: And then a few years ago, you were going to be directing an adaptation of “The Bell Jar,” and then it seemed like that sort of fell apart. But are you still interested in directing?
KIRSTEN DUNST: I think I will one day. I think it takes so much dedication, and I’m not in that place with how young my children are to do that. But one day I will. I’m just not prepared to focus that much energy on directing just yet.
MARK OLSEN: I think your older child is like the age basically that you were when you started performing.
KIRSTEN DUNST: Modeling. Baby modeling, basically. Like, not really performing. You know, for the first time I kind of get it because my child’s really expressive, and so I kind of understand how people would be like, “Well, you should put them in a commercial and like get some money for college.” He’s very expressive though. I remember one day he came out of school, and it was so like, “Mommy!” And I was like, “Oh God, you’re so the actor’s kid right now.” Both Jesse’s mom and my mom — because Jesse was a child actor too — they’re dying to put him in something. Dying. Dying! I was like, then you have to sneak him out of the house and go to some audition if you really want to. They’re like, “People need to see this child.” So, I don’t know, it’s funny.
MARK OLSEN: But how do you feel about it? It’s funny, I feel like a lot of times actors have this attitude of like anything but, they want their child to do anything but.
KIRSTEN DUNST: I love what I do. I’m very lucky. I would just want my child to really study it and read and work on his craft. Like, if you want to do it, then you got to work hard. That’s what I would say. And it’s not like I’m gonna push my kid into early child acting or anything. But if they showed interest, I mean, both their parents are actors. It’s kind of like, I’d be surprised if they didn’t have something, one of them. It’s like, it’s part of your DNA at this point, kid. You know?
MARK OLSEN: Well, Kirsten. Thank you so much for your time and your candor.
KIRSTEN DUNST: Oh thanks, Mark. Was I too candid?
MARK OLSEN: No, that’s what we’re looking for!
KIRSTEN DUNST: OK. OK.
MARK OLSEN: That’s a wrap on our first episode of the season. “The Envelope” is hosted by me, Mark Olsen.
YVONNE VILLARREAL: And by me, Yvonne Villarreal. If you haven’t already, stop what you’re doing right now and follow “The Envelope” on Apple, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. We’ll be back next week with a brand new episode featuring “White Lotus” star Jennifer Coolidge.
MARK OLSEN: This episode was edited and produced by Heba Elorbany and Asal Ehsanipour. Our executive producer is Shani Hilton. Our engineer and composer is Mike Heflin. Special thanks to Clint Schaff, Richard Hernandez, Gabby Fernandez, Geoff Berkshire, Elena Howe and Matt Brennan.
YVONNE VILLARREAL: Thanks for listening! We’ll see you next week.