DW: US President Donald Trump’s admiration for Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban was on full display at the recent CPAC gathering in Budapest, and the architects of Project 2025 say openly that they see Orban’s illiberal democracy as the model for Trump’s second presidency. What parallels do you see between Hungary and the United States right now?
Klara Dobrev: We took democracy for granted.
In 2010, we said: “If Orban doesn’t deliver, then we will simply defeat him in the next elections.” I have heard the same thing from my fellow democrats in the USA. It’s not true.
These illiberals, they are attacking the institutions. They are attacking the checks and balances, the correction mechanisms of democracy. They attack the media, they attack public administration, they attack civil organizations, they attack freedom of speech … You must be able to react on time, before it’s too late.
What were the key red flags on the road to “illiberal democracy,” and what are the moments of possibility for pushing back?
Dobrev: A politician comes to power in an election, but then there is a moment when he decides not to lose power; he decides to become an autocrat. This is a one-way road.
There is no turning back. That’s what we saw with Putin. That’s what we saw with Lukashenko. That’s what we saw with Erdogan and that’s what we saw with Orban.
Hungary was once one of the best countries in Central Eastern Europe, with the highest living standards. Now, we are one of the poorest countries in the European Union.
Democracy is the only way you can secure the long-term wellbeing of people. If there is a mistake, you can correct it. If there is a bad policy, you can correct it. If there is no democracy, then you can’t correct it.
Now, the tension is so big. People are living in very bad circumstances. We don’t have migrant problems, we have the problem that everyone is leaving the country. I definitely think that in 2026 you can really put huge pressure on the government.
Viktor Orban’s main political challenger is Peter Magyar, a former Fidesz insider. Why has the Hungarian left not been able to occupy that space?
Dobrev: In 2021, the united opposition (United for Hungary) was ahead of Fidesz in the polls. Unfortunately, a right-wing candidate started to talk against the left parties, and it destroyed this feeling of being united.
I strongly believe that the only way you defeat an illiberal populist is with a broad coalition of Democrats, Conservatives, Liberals, Greens, Social Democrats, Socialists. Together: That’s the only way, and that’s the only way you can govern a country later on.
This time, again, the opposition is leading. But it will not be enough if we cannot make a broad coalition. You have to bring everyone to the voting booth.
How can a broad coalition be kept together over an issue like defending the Budapest Pride march, which is likely to be something supported by urban liberals, but not by more conservative sections of society?
Dobrev: We can have different values about a lot of things, but if you are a democrat, then you definitely must work on the basis that Pride cannot be banned, whatever your opinion about it.
When there is a red flag, there is a red flag. Every politician who considers himself a democrat has to be there on Pride.
That’s why I invited the whole European Parliament. I invited all fellow members from different parties to come and show courage, to participate in Pride. This is exactly the moment when you as a politician have to set an example.
This month, the Hungarian government made a surprising concession: postponing a parliamentary vote on the Transparency in Public Life bill until after the summer recess. The bill, which would enable the government to fine — and potentially ban — NGOs, media outlets and journalists it deems to be receiving foreign money and acting against the national interest, has been heavily criticized by rights groups. What dangers do you see in the legislation?
Dobrev: It’s not only freezing the funds, it’s threatening the journalists or the owners of the media outlets with a fine which is 25 times the funding they receive. So, it’s a personal threat, it’s not a political threat.
In the 21st century, you don’t have to put people in jail, you can silence them very easily.
Let me give you an example. The Pride was a march of joy. It was sponsored by a lot of multinational companies, all the big companies who were in Hungary.
When this law came out, the majority of the sponsors disappeared. So, you can just simply create an atmosphere where this kind of solidarity within society is not working anymore — and the same with the journalists and media outlets.
When autocracy goes into your soul, into your mind, you don’t need external censors. I think the most dangerous attack is not the concrete penalty, the concrete fine. The biggest damage is to the mindset and the soul.
You’re a former vice president of the European Parliament, currently a sitting MEP within the Progressive Alliance of Socialists and Democrats (S&D) group. You’ve seen, from Brussels, how some €18 billion worth of funds have been withheld from Hungary over rule of law concerns. And yet, the democratic backsliding has continued. Has the EU got it wrong? What would be a more effective approach toward Orban?
Dobrev: Even after 15 years of Orban, Hungarians are pro-European. It’s over a thousand years of Hungarian history: We always wanted to be part of Europe, and always someone dragged us out, whether it was the Tartars, the Turks or the Russians.
So, if you put the question in black and white: “Orban or Europe?” then the majority of the people would choose Europe.
It’s so painful for me to say this, but Orban could never have built his illiberal regime without European funding, which was coming into the country for 10 years without any proper controls.
All his oligarchs, friends, son-in-law, father — their wealth was stolen from European taxpayers, and it was stolen from the Hungarian people. And with this wealth, they bought the media outlets, they bought the critical companies in energy, in telecommunications, in the banking sector. They bought the land, they bought the country.
That’s why we are saying that until these controls are built in, the money should remain in Brussels.
It’s there, it’s for Hungary, but it cannot go anymore to the Orban family and the Orban oligarchs.
Brussels should really show that Europe is a union of values and democracy, not simply a bunch of countries.
Edited by: Aingeal Flanagan
The full interview with Klara Dobrev MEP can be heard on DW’s Inside Europe podcast.
